Wednesday, July 23, 2008

Two Hands

These are, imo, the two most interesting hands I played in my generally disastrous session last night. I'love to hear your thoughts on my play.

1. Hero is UTG w/ offsuit pocket aces.

Hero raises to 10. Relatively unknown tight passive player in MP calls. Another call on the button, and one in the big blind.

~40 in the pot, 4 players to the flop.


Hero checks. Tight passive bets 30. Others fold. Hero folds.

2. (My memory's a little hazy on the specifics of this one, chime in if you remember anything, Royal).

Hero is in late position with 88.

Royal raises to 9 from middle position. Hero calls. At least two other callers to the flop.


Royal bets 20. Hero calls. Others fold.

Turn is a K♣. Royal checks. Hero bets 30. Royal raises to 70. Hero calls.

(FYI, At this point I am pretty certain that Royal does not have a strong hand, ie, a King or a deuce)

River is a 4♦. Royal bets 100. Hero calls.


maddie said...

I was not there but not too excited about a check fold with AA against tight passive player. Real tight players are not likely to play 10,8 the nuts. Could have suited connectors or could have just hit top pair. A check raise will define your hand better. If he raises toss it, calls, likely check call the rest of the way.

I am not qualified to comment on the hand against Royal. He always beats me.

jtrey333 said...

Wow, again Maddie shows her true colors...

Anyways, I wish you were there to see it Jason, but the guy that Joe is talking about was SUPER tight. As in he wouldn't bet without having what he thought was a great hand. I was pretty certain that Joe made a good fold there, as my observations of the guy fell right in line with Joe's actions. All night, he bet when he was ahead, won a few pots, then left with more than double his buyin. Pretty simple night for our new player..

royalbacon said...

A couple edits to the 2nd hand:

After the K♠2♦2♣ flop I bet 21, and Joe calls.

And on the river, it was a 3♦, not a 4.

And as the hand played out, Joe called my 100 bet on the river. I showed my pocket 10s, he showed his snowmen.

The banter after the hand went something like, “Joe, after you called my bet on the flop, and then call my check-raise on the turn, I was 99% sure you didn’t have a king or a 2, so at that point I know my 10s are good.” and Marsh said to Joe, “Ship it. Either you’ve got a king or you don’t, but there’s no reason to simply call there.”

I think after I made the 100 bet on the river, Joe’s stack was sufficiently low enough that I would have called had he gone over the top of me (maybe another 100 or 150 behind, right Joe?) I was 99% sure he didn’t have the boat, so my only concern there is a bigger pocket pair, and I’m willing to lose a larger portion of my stack there to find out.

Sushi Cowboy said...

I don't like the check fold on the flop of hand one. What's with that? As Maddie so eloquently points out the likelihood of said tight passive player calling a raise with T8 is somewhere around zero. For Jeh it's 50/50 but that's another story. Other than that, what is beating you? 66, 77, 99, and maybe 67. Whichever of those hands he has, he is likely betting on such a draw heavy board. Now what could he have that he is betting there? A9? Maybe but probably not calling a raise with A9. How about TT through KK? Not sure which Villain you are talking about but I believe he flat called a moderate raise with KK that night as well. Then there are some semi bluffs, 88, 89, AcKc, and the like.

How can you check fold when you are beating the vast majority of the range that could be betting that Flop? Or how about at least leading out and fold if you get raised? If he is truly tight passive then give him the opportunity to fold top pair. Or if you check raise then let him think you could possibly even have T8 since he doesn't.

Hand two: that was a weird hand. I remember being very surprised about the holdings at showdown. I think the Turn gives you an opportunity to re-raise and better define Royal's hand. If you were sure that he didn't have a boat then it would be harder for him to call a re-raise especially since he is less invested in the hand at that point and you still have some fold equity.

jsola said...

In the first hand, I think failing to c-bet was a mistake, but I still think a fold against that opponent on that board was fine.

His preflop calling range is something like 22-QQ, suited connectors, big aces, pretty nitty I'm guessing. I don't expect him to bet into 3 other people unless he has either a strong hand or a good draw. He's never folding either of those hands if I raise.

I wish I remembered the exact stack sizes, but I believe I had something like 150 chips on the flop, and he had me covered. Not much room to maneuver. Any non-shove raise isn't applying enough pressure to make him fold a draw, and I'm going to be committed at that point no matter what.

Also, I was uncomfortable with the idea of playing a scary turn out of position against an unknown. I was thinking about what cards I didn't want to see on the turn/river if I called him down, and there's tons of them. Any club, any 5, 8, 10.

I don't think check/fold'ing is great, maybe just bet/fold or bet/call would be better.

As for the hand against Royal, I think he played it *perfectly*. gg nh royal.

I read him for weakness after his turn minraise and big river bet. I expected him to check/call the river with a pair like TT-AA, and lead with any king and any bluff. I thought there was a good enough chance that it was a bluff that I could call. I was pretty surprised to see his tens.

royalbacon said...


gmartini said...

I wouldn't exactly call betting a Flop with an overpair "cbetting". And against that range you have a lot of those hands beat. Either way, I don't see how you can not bet that Flop.