Tuesday, March 2, 2010

Dealer's Choice game selection

We've been playing Dealer's Choice for a while now. We started with the qualification that the game needed to be a WSOP game with Pass The Trash and Badugi grandfathered in. We also discussed the possibility of working in a new game each time on a trial basis which we have strayed away from. So I'm here to put it out to the group to discuss whether we should change the lineup of games available on Dealer's Choice nights. If you have any input go ahead and speak up now.


chuck m said...


Would make me very happy.

Marshall said...

Would love to see Baduci.

Although there are a couple of variants on whether the A is high or low etc that we would have to hammer out (I think going along with whatever the LA casino's are doing seems fine)

I am not sure I would want to see PTT go away, but maybe just limit the number of times it can be picked since it does take up such a huge chunk of time for one orbit.

chuck m said...

I guess I'll expand a little bit on my thoughts:

Baduci - For those who don't know, baduci is a split pot 5 card triple draw game. The pot gets split between the best deuce-seven hand and the best badugi hand. You can play it with A234 being the nut badugi or 2345 being the nut. I'm in favor of the 2345 variant because it allows you to make nut-nut. The game is being spread in the LA casinos and a few card rooms in Vegas, which is why I'd like to add it to our rotation.

PTT - In a vacuum, I like the game ptt, I just don't like it in our rotation. We only play a few hours of mixed games a month, and spending 40 minutes of that time on a single orbit of a game that doesn't get run in any casino seems like a big waste of time to me. It was fun when we were learning the game and it was big action, but that's really not the case any more and it really feels like a bad way to budget our time on mixed nights. If we do keep it, I would not like to see it be called more than once a night.

royalbacon said...

I'm a big fan of PTT, and would hate to see it go. As for Baduci, I'm willing to give it a go, for sure.

RE: "[Pass the Trash] was fun when we were learning the game and it was big action, but that's really not the case any more" I have to heartily disagree with Chuck. PTT was fun when we first started playing it, and it remains fun today, and we’re STILL learning how to play it. As our collective conscience grows around the game, our play shifts. See the last DC night at my house for example: I was able to work my way into two separate hands where I had a WAY bad low hand, but because of an attentive eye on what everyone was doing and good position, I got it in there for half the pot.

I love the cat and mouse game it brings about. We're still learning how to work with that, and I’m happy to hear that Chuck has given up trying to change with the knowledge learned about the game, as it only means more money for me. I would hate to lose that.

royalbacon said...

I’d also be up for limiting PTT to no more than 2 orbits in a given night. Maybe even 1 orbit, if that's what people wanted.

jason said...

Another vote for limiting PTT. I would be up for baduci.

Sushi Cowboy said...

I did a little reading and would prefer a A234 low for Badugi since a 23457 rainbow 2345 is almost certainly a lock to scoop even if it isn't the nut low. How many times has a five high Badugi lost? I think that switching to a 2345 nut low Badugi would take away from the game of Baduci.

And though I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere in what I've read so far I think making it a declare game would be a real interesting twist.

I agree with the time taken on PTT but I feel that the game could be sped up considerably if we just put a clock on the passing portion. It simply should not take that long to dump your first three cards and setting your hand after you get your three cards should be fairly straightforward as well. We can do something like putting a ten second clock on each of those steps and kill any hands that aren't set by the deadline. Any cards passed to a dead hand move on to the person who would have received cards from the killed hand.

Another reason the game slows down is by having to explain rules REPEATEDLY. I will print out rules for how many cards to pass then ditch and how to declare hi, lo, or scoop. With rules in hand, asking any question about how the game is played will result in a dead hand. Yes, the game *can* take a while but there's no reason why it must take that long.

Sushi Cowboy said...

Did some more reading and the more I think about it the more I remain on the side of A234 rainbow as the nut Badugi. I just thing it will be a more interesting game since the two goals are divergent, just like a hi/lo game split pot game. The holy grail is still of course a scoop but having a lock both ways is rare in split pot games. Part of the appeal of PTT is when there is a three way pot with two strong highs and a lock for low and I think having the Ace play different ways would generate the same kind of scenarios. It can also lead to someone switching directions after a draw.

Bottom line, let's add it to the list. Whoever calls the game can decide which way the Ace plays for Badugi. After the next DC night we can discuss it more.

royalbacon said...

Agreed, Martin. I like the A234 badugi vs. 23457 deuce-seven hand.

And now I'd like to suggest a game called Don’t Pass The Badugiduci (badoogeedoochee), where we all start with 7 cards, pass 3 to another person, then play Baduci with the 5 remaining cards, where we have 3 drawing rounds. At the end of the last drawing round, we order our cards face down and reveal one card at a time. This way, we end up with a total of 7 betting rounds. Should only take a couple hours for an orbit.

Done and done.

Adam said...

Audible laugh granted to Royal. Very funny.

Any interest in 7-27? It's a high-low split non-poker game where half the pot goes to the player whose hand is closest to 7 and the other half to the player whose hand is closest to 27. Cards are worth their face value (a 6 is worth 6 points), with face cards worth 1/2 point and Aces 1 or 11 (thus the perfect hand of 5-A-A can scoop both halves.

It's not a poker game per se, but is a definite strategy game that brings about tremendous action. (Learned it from my grandfather, who played it for 45 years with his buddies.)

I can find (when not at work) the official rules, but goes something like this.

1) Each player gets two cards, one up, one down.

2) A betting round follows (limit) starting (I believe) with the person to the left of the button.

3) Then players are offered the opportunity to draw a card (face up). Once it goes all the way around (with players accepting/declining cards) a second round of cards is offered.

4) Then another betting round.

5) This pattern -- betting round; two draw opportunities; betting round; two drawing opportunities continues until nobody takes a card during a double drawing rounds. One last betting round closes the action.

6) Half goes to low (closest to 7) and half goes to high (closest to 27)

7) Ties go to the "outside," meaning 6 beats 8 and 28.5 beats 25.5.

That's it. Simple, stategeric and super actiony. (Plus, dead grandpa would be proud....I'm sure a huge motivator for you all.)

chuck m said...

>Any interest in 7-27?

I am not. I really would like our rotation to only be games that you can go play in a casino or online (another reason I want PTT out). If we start adding non-poker games like this are we going to start addings deuces wild games too?

7-27 also sounds like an orbit would take forever...

Sushi Cowboy said...

I've played 7/27 and it is fun. I agree with Chuck's point though. I'd be happy to play it in lieu of Chinese sometimes while waiting for people to show up though.

Adam said...

Chuck and Marty....while I might forgive you, the ghost of Abbott Swartz will not. Consider yourself warned.

Woodrow said...

For years, the wise Mike Caro has prophesied the return of draw poker. When that juicy 5 card draw game is being spread at your local saloon, whilst thou be prepared?

Sushi Cowboy said...

Baduci *is* a five card draw game.

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