Monday, September 3, 2007

lol internet

A few internet hands for you guys to ponder.

All of them are short handed (5-6 players) with $0.25-$.50 blinds. No reads on anyone I'm playing against because I'm a multitabling superstar who doesn't have time for reads.

Hand 1

Hero's got J♦J♥ on the cut-off. MP folds, I raise to $2. Button and SB fold, BB re-raises to $6.50. (No reads on him at this point)

The flop comes 4♦9♦2♦. BB bets $8 into the $13 pot.

Hero calls, turn is a Q♦. BB pushes his last $37 into the $29 pot.


Hand 2

Hero has 3♠3♦ on the button. Villain raises it to $1.75 from the hijack. Cutoff calls, hero calls.

Flop is 6♥8♥9♦. Villain bets $2.85 into the $6 pot. CO folds.

Hero calls. Turn is T♠. Villain bets $5.85 into the $11 pot. Hero calls.

River is A♣. Villain bets $5 into the $23 pot.

Hero raises to $25... Villain has $50 left and covers hero. Good or bad?

Hand 3

Hero has K♠K♦ in the BB. Three people limp, SB folds, and hero raises to $3. Two callers to the flop...

8♣5♦J♠. Hero bets $6 into the $9 pot. Button calls.

Turn 3♣. Hero checks, button bets $2 into the $22 pot.


BONUS BAD BEAT HAND!!! (I'm 'tgijvs')

Stupid river. Worst street in hold'em imho.


Austin said...

Hand 1: Call. It sounds like he had an over pair that completely missed the flush and is trying to bet you off of it entirely. If he has an A/K of diamonds then there's no way he's betting over the pot's limit. That's just dumb since he's more than likely got it at that point and that's all that beats you.

It could be that he's playing it incredibly dumb and that you're fucked if you call, but I don't think that's the case. Granted it took me a minute or two to come to this conclusion though (and initially I thought to fold), so who knows really.

Hand 2: These are the kinds of hands that get me in serious trouble. I've had them both work and go against me. It's awesome when you pull down a $50 pot and it all works out, but then there's the time when someone caught something and you just get royally fucked. It sounds like he had QQ or KK. The $5 sounds like a bet that is a "Oh god please don't call if you have a 7 or A" type of bet. I like the raise if you have him pegged on QQ or KK, but if he has something like 99 or 88, it's much more iffy. In that case (and it kind of goes along with his betting scheme trying to kill any possibility of a straight), you probably have a 50% chance that he'll call and you're out of a lot of money. It's one of those hands that could either make you a lot or lose you a lot and personally I would have folded a long time previous. These are always the hands when I try to fake something huge that come to bite me in the ass later on. So I'd say bad, but really you could very well have ended up good in the end.

Hand 3: I don't honestly know. Probably call the bet, and then bet on the river (and see if he raises). It's iffy because the hands you can put him on beat you a good portion of the time (AJs with clubs, JJ, AA, MAYBE 88), but you beat him with any other AJ/AQ/AK combination. I'm guessing you should raise it up and see if he calls or reraises. If he raises, fold it, if he calls you probably have him. Hope to god an A doesn't come on the river and you're most likely fine.

Re Bonus bad beat: I've had one exactly like that too (I think I even told you about it last week). The only consolation I guess is that 9 times out of 10 that play is going to wreck him and you'll get a TON of money from it. He had 4 cards that would have helped him and I'll take those odds any day of the week.

P.S. You ever find out how much I made you last week? I'm guessing it was a whole $1 :). BOOYA MONEY.

Chuck said...

Hand 1: Call. I'm thinking he may have had queens and is trying to scare off a low flush.

Hand 2: I'd probably have folded post flop, but I like the raise here if you're going to see out the hand.

Hand 3: I'd raise it, probably to around $10. Enough that you can get a call from a hand you're beating, and will get re-raised by a hand beating you.

Sushi Cowboy said...

Hand 1: Fold
Hand 2: Fold
Hand 3: Fold

This analysis brought to you by Dr. Weak/Tight.

jsola said...

What range of hands are you guys putting the villain on in each of these?

Good comments so far, I'll post a real response (with results) later.

Ryan said...

Disclaimer: I have established that I suck at online play.

Hand 1: Online, you get people pulling the "massively overbet with the nuts" trick where they want it to look like they are trying to bet you off and get a call with something like, well, the third nuts. AK, KK, or AA with a diamond is a likely hand, here. Could be QQ in denial as well. I think the only hand you are beating that makes some kind of sense with the action is TT with the diamond, but that doesn't feel as likely as AK, AA, or KK with a diamond, so fold.

Except, me playing on the internet in the heat of the moment, I probably say, "This guy's a donkey," and call, then lose all my chips to the reverse-bluff overbet with the nuts. That's my problem online, I assume everyone is a donkey. I'm right about 85% of the time, but the 15% when I'm wrong kills me.

Hand 2: Hmmm. The only reason to raise there is if you think he can beat a pair of threes but can be bet off his hand, fearing the random ace or random 7 that now has him beat. He was first in with a raise preflop, so his range is pretty big. Still, if he doesn't have an ace or a 7, it's tough to call that raise, so I don't hate the move. I'm worried about his $5 river that a "scared" bet from a hand that felt pretty good on the flop and is now nervous, or is that a value bet from a hand that got there after some c-bets? half-pot, half-pot, micro bet fit both scenarios.

It could go either way, but I'm pretty sure it's one of those two, and there are probably more "now nervous" combinations than there are "got there" combinations, so I guess I like putting the pressure on. Tough making these calls with no read to work with, I like that you are leveraging a scare card to apply pressure. Maybe he raises all in and you have to fold, but I think you have picked a solid spot for this play.

Hand 3: Weird. If he's on a draw, I'd expect him to check behind, here, so what's the $2 about? Is he baiting you into a riase, or feeling for check/fold? I mean, you can't fold to the $2. I guess I throw out a raise to $8, and if I get repopped, then I start to seriously consider the fold. Smooth call $6, then bet tiny on the turn...I'm having trouble putting him on a range, because betting $2 with a draw here is just so dangerous. If you aren't going to put out a bet that can take it down, why not just check?

Yeah, I guess, even knowing that this all feels weird and that this could be a setup by a set of 5s, 8s, or the dreaded spainr, I would rather spring the trap with a raise now and get some definition rather than call the $2 and try to figure it out on the river.

Marshall said...

Hand 1: Hero calls. His range is really wide with absolutely no read or PT stats. Probably 66-AA,AK,AQ,AJ,A10s,A9s,KQ,KJs,QJs,J10s. Something like that. I think I would rather jam the turn here. If he is a donk, there is a good chance hes not going anywhere with the Ad or Kd anyhow. I think the flop is the turning point of the hand regardless. If you feel like your JJ is good there, I would like to see you get the money in right there. It also seems weird to me for him to jam the turn if he just hit the nuts/second nuts. That is a pretty significant overbet, and if he has the Ad, why make it?

Hand 2: I don't really love the preflop call here, but after that, I really don't like the play. His range is pretty wide also; 66-AA,AK,AQ,AJ,A10s,KQ,KJ,QJ,J10 again. It's hard for me to narrow his range as the hand progresses, and that last bet is really really odd. It might come off as a super-value bet, but I think more often than not this is actual weakness. That being said, he doesn't seem to worried about the flush draw. I am having a tough time putting him on anything specific, but I would guess a set, or air. I would have folded on the flop though. Curious to see how this turned out.

Hand 3: This is weird. On the flop I had him on a weak J or 9 10 for an OESD. I have no idea why you checked the turn, you just open the door for disaster there. I also have no clue why he is leading for 2.00 into 22. I would think he would want a free card if he was drawing, I guess he could have hit 2 pair with J3 (yikes) and is trying to induce action from you. For me, I would take the bait and give him action. I would jam here and see what he wants to do. I certainly don't like the check though on the turn, I would love to hear the rationale there.


Hand 1: Call
Hand 2: ummm ya.
Hand 3: Raise.

Bonus hand: WTF thats pretty sick dude. Reminds me of this one hand I played in Canada..

jsola said...


Hand 1. At first I thought this was an insta-muck, and I folded it at the time. However you guys are giving me pause here with almost all of you saying call.

At the time I felt sick about putting my whole stack in with the third nuts, especially with no redraws. If I don't have any reads on someone I'm more willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and this guy three-bet me preflop, which from the average player is going to mean AA, KK, QQ, AK, and AQ every so often. Then he continues his aggression on a scary board and pushes with four to a flush showing.

I really look like I'm on a diamond draw on the flop, so why would he push into me when it got there? The average online player at these stakes would insta-call here, and if this guy is halfway decent he understands that.

Either this guy's trying pulling a sick sick bluff to get me off a diamond, or he spiked the nut flush and is looking to fake-bluff his way to money-ville.

Another thing to consider is the calling-station image this call would give me. With my playing style, I'd much rather have a tight, bluffable image so I can make lighter calls later against aggressive opponents.

After reading your responses though, I'm not so sure anymore. I very well could have been good 1 out of 3 times. Other than that, I totally agree with Ryan on this one. People are doing the overbet-with-the-nuts move more and more lately so I'm very leery of calling one of these now.

Hand 2. So without reads, I'm giving a preflop raiser a pretty decent, tight, range. He didn't minraise, which tells me he's not HORRIBLE, so I'm going to give him a standard preflop raising range. AA-77, AK-A9, KQ, KJ, QJ, some low suited aces, etc.

The flop missed most of his range, and that sure does look like a weak little continuation bet, so I decided to call and see what happened on the turn.

The turn was great for me because it still didn't help his range and I can't put him on too many hands with a 7 in them. He does the same half-pot bet, and if I thought I was good on the flop, I might as well call this bet too. At this point I have him on something like AJ.

His river bet totally reeked of blocking-bet, which makes sense if he just paired his ace. I decided to put him to the test and push hard on him here, aaaaaand...

He folded! Booya. I showed my bluff and ended up stacking him later since he would not give me credit for anything after that move.

Hand 3. I think the most important part about this hand is the fact that everyone else in it has limped in. After I raise and no one re-raises, I'm putting them all on suited connectors, weak suited aces, small pocket pairs, and some garbage.

The flop is GREAT for pocket kings, and when this dude calls I've got him squarely on some junky ten.

I played the turn horribly, for sure. My thought at the time was to check-raise him since I didn't think he'd call much more with just top pair. Of course, that also means he's probably not going to bet much more with just top pair, but I didn't think that through at the time.

I didn't expect him to put out such a tiny bet and really didn't know what to make of it.

I still felt like I had some value in the hand so I raised it to $6 (way too small). He called, and now I'm out of position on the river and don't know what the hell to do. I checked, he checked it through and showed a garbage 5.

Should I have kept up my aggression on the turn? Or check-raise all-in and hope he calls with top pair? His bet size was perfect in that it confused the hell out of me and changed my mindset from "get the money in" to "do I really want to get my money in?"

jsola said...

Err, that hand 3 part should say "I've got him squarely on some junky jack."