Sunday, July 29, 2007

I'm behind...why am I calling?

There were two hands where I was very confident that I was behind and yet I called anyway. Both hands were against Ivan. One hand I had AJ and flopped top pair. I believe it was me leading and a smooth call from Ivan. Turn was a blankish looking card. I lead again and get re-raised (all-in?) I know that I am way behind. I can't even beat AK. I put him on two pair and he is speeding up on the turn because he either made his two pair or the board was getting too draw heavy. I have no reason to call but we get all the money in anyway. He shows a set of Nines and I am already drawing dead. River bricks so I don't even get a losing two pair or trips. D0nkerric.

Last hand was stupid, this one was more forgivable based on hand strength but still makes no sense once the hand is thought through. Limped pot. Flop comes T97 two clubs. Perfect flop for the SpainR. Unfortunately I have 97 instead. I can't beat a straight unless I boat up. Ivan and I nibble around the edges with the bets and I'm not interested in building the pot unless I boat up. Turn is a high card (Q?) but not a club, no flush. Again, small bets. River pairs the Seven. I now have gotten the boat that I "wanted". I believe that Ivan opened up for 20 and I could have called. I even remember thinking, I can beat a straight now but a straight would have made no sense since Ivan was not protecting against the flush. I'm also guessing that he would not lead out into a paired board with a straight. So I raise since I get criticized for playing weak/tight so much. I get re-raised all in and I feel that I'm beat. I know I have a house but I have the nut low house. I know that Ivan is a good enough player to know what a paired board means I am behind T7, Q7, 99, TT, and QQ. I'll exclude QQ as very unlikely and even TT or 99 would likely have come in for a raise. I can't see Ivan getting involved in a hand with bottom pair only and raising with just trips. I know I'm beat and I'm calling anyway because "there's just not that much more behind to call".

Throwing money away. Not that hard to figure out. D0nkerrific x 2!

10 comments:

jtrey333 said...

um... so what did Ivan end up having? Me no likes incomplete hand summariez.

Sushi Cowboy said...

So did I ever tell you that joke without the punchline?

He had T7 for a higher boat. You should show up for poker and you'd KNOW these things! ;)

jtrey333 said...

Cool... are you offering to plan and do everything for our wedding so I can go to poker? You're the best!

jtrey333 said...

Oh, and don't worry... I'll be there this Wednesday to d0nk.

Marshall said...

This is one of those cases where your style will save you some money (in the short run). But you ignored it and listened to our voices in your head. Only the tightest of the tight and the weakest of the weak would not lose their stack here I think. "nut low house" LOL.

You are going to have to find what parts of your game make you money and which parts don't. I know you keep records, does your style make you money overall? If not, what needs to be changed?

jason said...

I have got to agree with Marsh's comments. There is only one donk move here, the first one. I did not know Ivan's style at first but I figured out that he is a very tight player. The second is just one of those hands like trips over trips, you were beat by a great second best hand. Laydowns on hands like this are just as often wrong as they are right. I saw Negraneu once fold the nut flush on a paired board to Todd Brunson who was holding the Spainard. I think he had just paired his Jack or 8 and figured the only way to win the pot was a big bet on the river and Negraneu folded. Then we have Ivan folding the Jack high flush to Royals all in with trip Kings. My point is this, when you have a great hand like a full house with both cards playing and you are getting 2, 3 or 4:1 to call, a call makes the most sense. At best you are going to right on your laydown 50% of the time, so in the long run you are better off calling. As Marsh says, and I have to agree, only the tightest of the tight and the weakest of the weak would fold here.

Glad to see Jtrey is coming. He was the only one that posted a neutral (not negative) comment on the four way all in. I liked his comment. It is a risky move, way up there on the risk reward scale. You will have huge variance playing Aces this way but if this is your style then so be it.

jason said...

Oh, I forgot to add there were a couple hands you were beating, 8,7 is plausible, and 6,7 is plausible but unlikely. Jack 7 is also an outside chance.

Sushi Cowboy said...

I don't see an re-raise with trips, especially a re-raise all-in. I see a call only on the river. Trips are still behind a potential flopped straight.

jtrey333 said...

Ok, do we have to go through this again? It is "spainR", not "Spainard". See here

Sushi Cowboy said...

jason said...

Oh, I forgot to add there were a couple hands you were beating, 8,7 is plausible, and 6,7 is plausible but unlikely. Jack 7 is also an outside chance.

Jason, the board is T97 Q 7. I bet and get raised. I can't imagine any of us *raising* with trips in that sitaution. Yeah, technically I am ahead of 87, 67, or J7. For that matter I am ahead of Ace high and a pair of ducks as well. The point is that I know I am up against a boat and I can't beat anything that's raising me.

Same situation at TuNP. Last orbit of the night. Flop comes 477. I check, another check (Chuck?), and Jeh bets. I lament not leading out and Austin suggests that I can do it now so I min-raise to 20. Jeh calls and it's heads up now. Turn is a 5. I lead for 40 and get called.

River is a 3 which makes a one card straight. I bet 60 and Jeh goes into the tank. With a one card straight now possible I make a comment about Jeh having a Seven, implying that he slow played himself into the losing hand. Wanting to get paid off I offer to show him a card but he refuses, insisting that he doesn't want to mess with his read on what I have. I am wondering if he has a 6 for the straight or a 7.

Then he bumps it to 200. And now *I* am in the tank. He sees that he isn't going to get paid so he offers me one card. I pick one and he flips over a three. After doing some quick calculations I shove the rest of my stack in which would be another 100 to Jeh and flip over a four. Jeh does a quick evaluation and says that he's not beating anything now and folds.

Jeh got away from 33 the nut low boat. I had the second nut low boat which I flopped with 44. With a three exposed, Jeh had to have had either 33 or 37 to raise me on that board. I didn't think he would play trips so passively and 33 makes more sense based on his open raise to 3xBB. But just in case I was wrong I wanted to flip up a 4 to imply that I MIGHT have 74 just in case he had 73, not that he could have gotten away from 73 in that situation though.

This is what I'm talking about as a solid laydown. You have a full house but are not beating anything that is giving you action. In this case Jeh could not have even been chopping like I possibly was in the OP. Kudos for a solid play from Jeh.