Here's a few imaginary hands to think about from an image-conscious point of view. No right or wrong answers, I just want to see what you think is the "best" play for each of these scenarios. I'll post what I would do in the comments so you don't think I'm just fishing for reads on you guys :)
For each of these hands, hero and villain both have a specific image. This image is either 'tight aggressive' or 'loose aggressive.' Assume both players are decent, thinking players, and both are aware of the other player's image.
How should the hero respond if a) hero is tight and villain is loose, b) hero is loose and villain is tight, c) both players are tight, d) both players are loose?
1. Preflop Manuevering
Hero picks up TT on the button and opens for 4x the BB. Villain, in the big blind, re-raises to 12x. Hero...
2. Flop Raise
Hero is in middle position and raises to 4x with K♠Q♠. Villain calls from the button.
The flop is Q♣J♣6♥. Hero bets out 3/4 the pot, and villain raises 3 times the original bet. Hero...
3. Scary River
(This one might not be played optimally by Hero given his image, but stick with me)
Hero is again in middle position and raises to 4x with 8♠8♦. Villain calls from the button.
The flop comes K♣8♣9♦. Hero bets out 3/4 the pot, and villain calls.
The turn is a 2♠. Hero bets out half pot, villain calls.
The river is a Q♣. Hero...
9 comments:
Some white space so you don't see my responses while you're writing up your own!
Legend: a) I'm tight, he's loose
b) loose / tight
c) tight / tight
d) loose / loose
1. a) Reraise. I want to get my money's worth out of this hand preflop.
b) I'm calling for set value here. Might bet if he's shows weakness and has check/folded on the flop before.
c) I call, check/fold most flops.
d) I shove and pray he folds. I shove because he might call with less if he thinks I'm making a move.
2. a) I still think I have the best hand and there are a lot of draws he could be raising on, so I re-raise or shove.
b) I call and bet/fold most turns.
c) Fold. I doubt he's checking the turn through if I call, and I don't want to call another bet from a TAGgy player here.
d) I shove, he could have a ton of different draws here and I want my money in against another LAG.
3. a) I check/call. This guy could have been on a draw, if he's not I almost certainly have him beat. He'll probably bluff this sort of river, so I feel I have to call.
b) I bet half pot and fold to a raise.
c) Check/fold? I don't know if I can fold a set but this seems like the time to do it.
d) I check/call for the same reasons as in a. Ooooh, but maybe a bet/fold is sexier here... Really depends on how LAGgy I look I think.
1.
a) …calls the bet and folds post-flop to the villain's continuation bet if the board doesn't improve hero's hand (by either showing a less-than-10-high board, or by giving him a set)
b) …calls the bet and gets ultra-aggressive after the flop as long as his read is that the villain's hand did not improve.
c) …calls the bet and checks it down.
d) …re-raises into the villain for 30x the BB.
2.
a) …calls. Then calls the turn and river bets, too, unless the flush gets there, or the turn and river bets are unbearable.
b) …re-raises for 2.5x the villain's bet.
c) …calls and checks it down.
d) …re-raises for 3x the villain's bet and is willing to go all-in with his pair on this street.
3.
a) check-raises. If the villain re-raises him, then he folds.
b) check-calls.
c) check-folds.
d) bets pot.
Here is my response for how I personally would play each of these hands:
Hand 1) Fold
Hand 2) Fold
Hand 3) Fold
Hand 1.
A. If I am tight, I am folding there. If my image is tight and someone 3 bets my 4x raise,
I give them credit for a hand that is better than 10 10.
B. Although tempting, I fold. Tight is tight, and 10 10 isn't a great hand to go to battle with,
even if the person puts me on something sub-awesome.
C. Again, I just don't want to take 10 10 to battle against a tight player. It's a pair of 10's.
D. If we are both loose then I am probably jamming there. Thats about all the excuse I need,
as he isn't giving me much credit being a) loose and b) on the button.
Hand 2.
A. Jam obv. Hammer that bitch.
B. Jam still, I think the villain's range even being tight is big enough that he probably puts
me on very little and I am pretty comfortable with my hand at that point.
C. Tough choice here. Probably have to let it go if he's tight and knows I am too.
D. Again Jam, his range includes many draws and crappy Q's, and I am ready to make him pay here.
Hand 3.
A. Hero checks.
B. Hero checks.
C. Hero checks.
D. Hero checks.
This last one brings up some important points. Tight means plays relatively few starting hands, it doesn't mean weak. When I was thinking about htis stuff I just narrowed/expanded their starting ranges to account for their image of tight or loose. On this last one, it doesn't really matter what they started with, they got there. I am checking there 100% of the time assuming I know nothing about starting stacks etc. There is no way that AK isn't repopping at some point and it feels like a draw 100%.
Cool now I get to read yours!
I call, check/fold most flops.
This sounds like a bad strategy.
Tight means plays relatively few starting hands, it doesn't mean weak.
Clearly I was describing a "weak" player in the above scenarios and not the "tight" player.
Eh, oh well. Interesting post nonetheless, Joe.
For those of us that took the time, this was really interesting. Comparing what we would do is fantastic, but of course I would love to hear in person why you guys would make these decisions, as writing all of this out would be pretty tedious since there is so much information.
Great post Joe at any rate.
I'm halfway through my response; still haven't looked at other responses. Will post mine later, with a thought-process breakdown.
Let's just use Ryan's response as the legend, and compare our answers to it like a test.
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